Question for the Outerbanks people

[fireflock]

Oh, he also said their next meeting will be held in Hatteras, May 19 2009. Attend if possible.

I wonder if Hatteras was chosen for the next meeting because: A) it is in a remote location and thus many will not attend because of this B) The offending wreck destruction operator runs out of there.

One can imagine a million possibilities.

Without saying anything about this particular meeting or those involved......one strategy is to make all of the opposition appear to be off the deep end by soliciting 'official input' in places where it's easy for extreme viewpoints to find a voice.

Hey look....we had 6 reasonable people say they like x,y,z and then there was this one guy in opposition who screamed about world control and black helicopters.

I still don't understand why it's so hard to get 'on the record' for this issue. I've been involved in other federal comment periods where email comments were acceptable, official, encouraged, and included in final reports.

Rich

[Steve_Campbell]

Or we don't ignore a small request to try and show we aren't all bad when we ignore a big request.

[Tortuga]

I have been wanting to put moorings on alot of the wrecks (especially when there are 3-4 boats trying to dive one wreck). However, I heard that they use to do this in the Morehead City area and fishermen would cut the line.

When a small group put moorings out, there was no way to restrict the use of them by others. Who is going to maintain them once they are installed? This was one of the problems with the mooring on the sub.

Also, the mooring had to be close enough for the divers to be able to reach the sub and not have the chain hit the sub, a problem with the mooring that was installed there.

It is not as simple as dropping a mooring by the wreck.

Permanent moorings are also a hazard to navigation in the open ocean unless they are USCG maintained and show up on charts and have a prominent radar foot print.

Why not place several man made tie in points around the wreck? Then the mates could ride a chain and clip down and tie in at a place that could not do any damage? If the viz is such that the wreck cannot been seen from the tie in point, they could run a line. I envision a big 4x4 concrete block with a big SS eye hook. You could float a marker straight up to take GPS readings. Seems logical to me.

[slaterson19]

Not all the boats send in a mate with the hook. There are only a few spots on the sub that divers tie into (prop shaft, gun mount, windlass) while others drag the hook until it catches or rips something off. I noticed a piece of the outer hull was ripped off last year due to a anchor/hook. One day it was there, the next day it was ripped in half.

[Tortuga]

Not all the boats send in a mate with the hook.

Plenty of fishermen drag hooks all over the wrecks. You have seen them all over the place on the bottom with chain and torn line. It took me 30 minutes to get a hook on the Papoose last friday because there were 5 boats fishing the wreck.

The Gray's reef sanctuary off GA prohibits anchoring, but allows diving. We all know that diving from a live boat in NC is not practical with customers. I was just thinking it would be a solution for dive boats if they did gain control and prohibit anchoring on any of our wrecks.

[RDBradish]

Not all the boats send in a mate with the hook.

Plenty of fishermen drag hooks all over the wrecks. You have seen them all over the place on the bottom with chain and torn line. It took me 30 minutes to get a hook on the Papoose last friday because there were 5 boats fishing the wreck.

The Gray's reef sanctuary off GA prohibits anchoring, but allows diving. We all know that diving from a live boat in NC is not practical with customers. I was just thinking it would be a solution for dive boats if they did gain control and prohibit anchoring on any of our wrecks.

BTW, NOAA's finding so far indicate that using the wrecks as an anchorage has been one of the leading causes of destruction, just as you all have illustrated. Ken your anchorage plan is one of the ideas being discussed, with the addition of a piece of heavy chain being laid on th ebottom betwe the anchorag and the wreck, but not attached to the wreck. The question thus far is to buoy it or not. Some say yes, some say know. The USCG does make provisions for anchorages, even off shore, but the captains would need updated charts that indicate the areas appropriately.

[Steve_Campbell]

May be a dumb idea but what about a permanent anchorage on the bottom and then a large buoy at say 20 ft below the surface (or whatever is appropriate). Should be easy to locate with depth finder, short drop to tie on, but would be below all but the largest boats.

Divers could pay for their dives by collecting all the lures hung up on the cable.

[packman]

I believe that 20 ft is too shallow for navigable waterways. Minimum depth allowed is 40 ft.

[RDBradish]

Depends on the Waterway. Many "Navigable Waterways" Including much of the Intracoastal, have average depths well below 20 feet in sections.

[packman]

I'm guessing there are different levels of navigable waterway..ie, the intercoastal waterway can handle ships up to X size. I would imagine that out in the ocean where we are discussing the mooring, whatever gets set up needs to allow the largest ships to either pass over it or warn them so that they can maneuver around it.

Then again, I'm no boat captain.

[anytime]

I believe 40ft is the rule for depth. Moorings would be nice. It would stop the damage done by the anchors and also provide more relief for the fishermen. Can you imagine the amount of bait that would pile up under, say, two moorings per wreck! That would be some good that NOAA could do.

[diveonthefive]

How would keep a heavy chain to the wreck from a mooring on the bottom stay visible? A weight pocket will disappear in a couple of weeks from settling and the moving sand.

[RDBradish]

How would keep a heavy chain to the wreck from a mooring on the bottom stay visible? A weight pocket will disappear in a couple of weeks from settling and the moving sand.

We used to keep chains from site to site in our lobster patch, a couple of 100 yards in an area called Target Rock, on the North shore of Long Island. In the silty areas where the chain can disappear, we would just tie bottles on with short pieces of line, about every 15 feet. This helps divers find the chain, who just reach down and grab the chain, then lift it back up to the surface while swimming to the site.

[diveonthefive]

When I hear the term "heavy chain", I think of anchor chain of a large ship. The chain you are describing is much lighter, but would still have floats. That is more workable.